Got a job with Aeon Corp, I will be living in Nagoya...

[PopCulturePooka]

Originally Posted by Plekto

Az's experiences are spot-on in this reguard.

You will be working 40 hours a week. They pay you for time worked in-class ONLY, though, being the stingy bastards most corporations are. But yes, you will be working 40 hours a week and overtime and helping out with the school plays and functions and...

Just like teaching full-time in America. Expect 60 hours a week to be common if they give you homework to do. Though, if it's an extension/community school, you likely can hire an aide as opposed to a Jr. High, where there's a shortage of adults as a rule. If you only have one workplace and it's an afterschool/community center type job, then you've gotten a bit lucky - you'll actually go home after 8 hours and not have the extracirricular functions. OTOH, you'll make almost no friends at work - it will feel like teaching at a local Junior College. They come in, you teach. They leave. You go home, too. I personally would rather teach at a school myself, though highschool is definately better from what I hear.

But yeah - you'll put in 40 hours. Lol. You must get in your proper quotient of workplace suffereing like the rest of society, afterall.

EDIT:
www.gaijinpot.com - notice the poor pay and miserable hours and so on for the jobs that don't have the red star next to them? If you are planning on long-term living, think of the job as a first one and move on. But contrary to what the big companies tell you, Fluency is all-but mandatory for better jobs. They say you don't need it, but the reality is that the reason is that while you don't *need* to speak Japanese, the chances of you getting a job in another field and leaving them is about zero otherwise. Of course they prefer people who only have them as an option - such is corporate thinking. Realize that going in and you'll be fine.

Myself? I'd apply for a real job and settle down if I was in Az's place. He speaks fluently and has three years experience, so applying for a full-time non-contracted job might be a possiblity. It's a person like him that people want to hire - and note how many of the jobs on that board are wanting local/in-country hires(like 80% of them!).

P.S. In my company, which deals with foriegn document forensics(legal document processing) - we have people from all over the world working for us. All are fluent in English and we are hiring new people every month as we grow. It's no different in Japan - you speak both languages fluently, and have some technical skills - you'll find work. Speak only one language and it's amazingly hard to find good work. I mention this as data/document forensics is a huge growing field that they need U.S. people in Japan to do - merely being fluent won't cut it when you are dealing with documents from mostly U.S. firms. My company hires a lot of people from around the world here in the U.S., for the same reasons. Knowing German isn't the same as beign German or having a Masters in Linguistics(which ine guy does - speaks 5 languages fluently) Something to look into at least, for those of use with some business background with fluiency in Japanese as well.

Wrong industry cup cake.

[PopCulturePooka]

Originally Posted by TommyA

OK let's say the world is full of liars and BSers, from what I was told, was that she hardly worked any overtime, and shifts were typically 12 - 9pm or 11 - 8pm,

The reason why the eikaiwas don't allow much overtime these days is the extra overtime hours push you over the edge to what would be considered full time, thus making it compulsory for the company to sign you onto Shokai Hoken, nation health insurance. Which your company must pay a percentage off. Which your company doesn't like doing.

[TommyA]

Originally Posted by sbay408

TommyA, did Aeon require you to know some Japanese or have studied some Japanese in the past?

Not at all, but I have 2 semesters under my belt, but it didn't help me.

And thanks PopCulture for saying what I was trying to be too polite to say. One of my weaknesses...

[Rogue_7]

hmm I cant speak for Aeon, but for us in GEOS the new contract seems similar.

25 hours teaching. 4.5 of prep (ha ha)

Interviews, meetings, lobby talk, all that falls under the 4.5 hours of prep, and any hours you have left over from teaching. For example, I currently have about 21 teaching hours a week. If you are done with your prep and your lessons, you leave. In fact, you are actually Not Supposed to stay in the building. So yeah, I don't work anywhere near 40 hours, but I would say I put in a bit more than 29.5, depending on the week. The trick for us is to block your classes together. So like Monday for example, I clock in and one, then leave and come back a bit before 5. Work till 10 go home! Today (wednesday) I do the same but I have to be back by 4. So yeah, nothing too horrible.

The question is, if you work for an eikawa like Aeon/GEOS, what is the level of your involvement and how much do they expect from you, since most of the teachers probably aren't too fluent in Japanese nor are expected to be fluent? Do you guys pretty much serve the same role as JET?

[PopCulturePooka]

Originally Posted by NERD

The question is, if you work for an eikawa like Aeon/GEOS, what is the level of your involvement and how much do they expect from you, since most of the teachers probably aren't too fluent in Japanese nor are expected to be fluent? Do you guys pretty much serve the same role as JET?

Nowhere near.

JETS teach high school.

Aeon/GEOS etc are Eikaiwa's. English conversation school. They are private companies with branches all over Japan (over 1000 at least). They aren’t government affiliated, nor are they real ‘schools’. While there are many Eikaiwa companies across Japan, Nova is the biggest and most monolithic.

Students pay money too visit them. A lot of money. WAY too much money (TommyA this is one thing you will have too accept and live with. The fact that your students are paying way too much for the product they get. Try not to think about it). They can come when they want for nice bite sized portions of english lesson with 0-3 other people.

Its like fast food english. McEnglish.

Would like verbs with that?

They have eikawas in Korea too, so I assumed something like what you've described. However, they don't have chains of eikawas with that many branches, and less foreigners who work there. Seems like Japan is the hot ticket.

Anyway, thanks for answering my question, PCP.

[Rogue_7]

Korea is heating up, as is China and Singapore, from what I hear. All are popular post-Japan destinations for folks who want to see more of Asia.

[PopCulturePooka]

Originally Posted by NERD

They have eikawas in Korea too, so I assumed something like what you've described. However, they don't have chains of eikawas with that many branches, and less foreigners who work there. Seems like Japan is the hot ticket.

Anyway, thanks for answering my question, PCP.

Beware though.

The market and industry in Japan is on shaky ground, and theres a lot of fucked up things happening.

[Rogue_7]

yeah, I don't think much money is being made anymore, at least not enough to sustain 4 major schools with hundreds of branches. Even NOVA with over 50% of the market is not making a profit (I hear). GEOS JAPAN is certainly in the Red, saved only by the over seas schools which are making an obscene profit. I assume most of the rest are in the same boat.

I'd love to be in Singapore personally.

If I could get a job offer not unlike JET/Aeon/GEOS in Europe, that's where I'd rather be, actually. I would love to teach while attending some art classes in Italy/France while teaching English, though I can't do the same in England for obvious reasons.

I picture myself teaching English to those in UK, and that amuses me. I WILL have an English degree though.

And personally, I think Korea is a tougher place to be than Japan. Seriously.

[Plekto]

While this board is mostly about teaching overseas, the fact is that there are other jobs as well that actually desire a native English speaker - either as a second job once you are there or as a part-time job while you do your teaching. I mention it as it's one field, like teaching English, where it's dominated by people from English speaking countries. Few people think of the field, but it's there - totally unglamorous and yet completely necessarry.

Re: teaching via a big company
It is a vicious little game they play. They want you to basically be beholden to them - know little or no Japanese, be unable to do anything other than be a migrant peasant in their corporate machine, and tied to a contract that is as long as they can get away with while paying you very little - yet not long enough so that you actually learn and start to assimilate. Ie - cheap expendable work-visa fodder.

The fact is - once you have a work visa over there, the contract is the only thing holding you to them - and even then it's not worth more than the paper it's written on, so if another employer is willing to overlook the bad karma(many aren't), you can "jump ship" very easily. Of course they don't want that, so JET and others tend to favor younger fresh out of college, with no real fluency. A middle-aged person with fluency, years of experience in their field, and who is likely to settle down once they get there - yeah - of course that's a flight risk.

The JET/etc wage is about 2/3 of what the better schools who want someone who is bilingual and in-country pay, especially if you go for their group housing plan, which is usually a rip-off.

BUT - if you know that going in, you can get around it. I've known people who are fluent enough to pass the toughest test and they purposely act a lot dumber than they are - maybe speak good enough like they've done a 2nd year Japanese course. Or they just get the company to overlook it and claim that they don't know any Japanese.(for those who know it outside of school).

I'd say that fluency in Japanese at at least a conversational level is a must if you plan on being able to stay there for more than a year or two.

[Decade]

Congrats man. I hope one day I can actually join you

[jindojim]

No offense Plekto..but you're a bit verbose.

http://www.geoscareer.com/your_contr...pensation.html

http://aeonet.com/application/contract.html

http://www.amityteachers.com/0105a_r..._a_b/index.htm

http://www.japanbound.com/contract.html

Compare.

[Plekto]

Originally Posted by jimmyjindo

No offense Plekto..but you're a bit verbose.

http://www.geoscareer.com/your_contr...pensation.html

http://aeonet.com/application/contract.html

http://www.amityteachers.com/0105a_r..._a_b/index.htm

http://www.japanbound.com/contract.html

Compare.

I'm first off, figuring you'll be working 40 hours a week ANYWAYS - I've heard of hardly anyone who doesn't put in a full shift if they want to please their bosses, pay or not.

First one - *up to* 250,000 Yen is horrible pay. 29.5 hours - skating the pension laws I see... Check.
"Teachers in large urban centers tend to commute for 45-60 minutes (one way) per day." - from what I hear, you can find housing once you are there for about the same - but much closer. Or same commute and cheaper. I've heard of a lot of poor pricing and long commutes from the company trying to save a few yen. Plus I like my own place if I can mange it. I pay $1200 a month for a 2 bedroom condo in L.A., and it's silly cheap rent for this area. $450 and live in a dorm type setting? um - I'll pay more for my own place if I can.

Second one - Bad rent/housing situation. Otherwise, looks nice. Overtime pay is a good thing, actually. It means you either get paid more OR get out at 5pm because they don't want you to cost them extra. win-win there. Still skating the labor laws I see. Better vacation. Paying for your own ticket is rough, though.

Third one - much better - decent hours, better pay, proper insurance. Looks a bit "workshop", though, with the goals and number of lessions per week.(incentives for over 28 classes per week - ow) Likely a *very* heavy workload, but far better than the first two. $255,000 yen after healthcare - not too shabby. Same as Aeon, but real healthcare. Housing is still kind of yucky, though.

Fourth one - ECC looks a bit of a mixed bag - some good, some bad. With all of that vacation time, that might mean a lot more money if you are like me and ignore/don't use them - like the school is going to complain. Pretty mediocre, like the first one - this has the 7 weeks of vacation, though. (how do they pull it off?). It also has no sponsored housing, unless I missed it, which can save money if you are frugal about it or get together with a couple of other teachers/roommates. Or provide headaches if you can't find anything.

Of these, The third one, Amity Teachers, looks the most promising, because you will likely work 40 hours a week at any of the other jobs anyways, or close to it, so why not get healthcare thrown in since you're going to be working that much anyways? Or you might be adventurous and got with door #4... Either you hardly work at all and handle your own cheap housing, or you can put in 6 weeks of extra work and boost your salary to a decent level.
#3 looks better for staying long-term. #4 looks better for experiencing life abroad/temporary gig. #1 and #2 need to get more competetive.

I'd still rate JET better, though, because they place you in schools as opposed to language classes, more often than the others. Az's experience is completely based upon his kids - if he was teaching in a commuter school/learning center, he'd like it half as much and have half as many interesting stories. They also set him up in his own apartment.

The problem for me is the 29.5 hours. Imagine being hourly and working 30 hours a week. Suddenly your 30K a year job is paying you 22.5K! 25K salary would jump to 34K. Big, no astounding difference in living style. Add in the fact that to actually be renewed, you have to please your boss, which means working a lot and donating time a lot - just ask Az about that part. Heh. But if you are paying tons of overtime or they wont give it to you ... you look like you're slacking or costing them more.(because the egencies tack on 30-50%) - loose loose situation. So you put in the time anyways.

It's just better to get the 40 hour week and not be the only one who's going home early.(that whole work-ethic thing again not being the nail that's sticking out/different - lol) It's also infinately better for your resume if you stay in Japan. "I got healthcare last job... and full-time hours..." That's worlds better than "part-time temp, no healthcare". I'm talking from experience living here in Los Angeles - not overseas, even.

From my friends:
Real full-time jobs once you are in Japan pay a lot more if you speak the language, that is. No different here in Los Angeles - people who only speak Chinese or Spanish or whatever - they are getting largely minimum wage jobs, labor, and assistant level stuff. 98% of the jobs just aren't available to them unless they learn English. So if a company was saying "you don't need ANY Japanese" - I'd of course suspect their motives.

But that's not surprizing to me in the least - companies are by nature self-serving. Such is life in a modern society. But when you are 23-24 and fresh out of college, well, most people think it's a great thing and trust a bit too much. Don't believe what they say - learn the language anyways. Then get a better job once you have completed your first year there.

P.S. It's still a great experience, no doubt about it. Just learn Japanese first.

[PopCulturePooka]

Where the sam fuck are you getting 40 hours a week from?

I knew NOBODY in Eikaiwa who did that, who lived the Japanese system in that regard except the Japanese staff.

Foreign teachers in all companies I encountered could start at their set time and finish at their set time.

In fact in my company you got in trouble for not logging off at your finishing time and doing unnaproved overtime.

[jindojim]

PCP, he's gettin it from here: http://www.amityteachers.com/0105a_r..._a_b/index.htm

[PopCulturePooka]

I mean this line:

"I'm first off, figuring you'll be working 40 hours a week ANYWAYS - I've heard of hardly anyone who doesn't put in a full shift if they want to please their bosses, pay or not."

Its like he is trying to say Eikaiwa teachers follow that strange Japanese system of staying till the boss does. Like some JET's are expected to do.

Thats nonsense.

[Rogue_7]

i find it ironic to rate Amity as higher than Aeon being that they are THE SAME COMPANY!

[The_Penguin]

Sounds pretty sweet dude. I hope you have a good time.

[Chinpokomon]

Originally Posted by Rogue_7

i find it ironic to rate Amity as higher than Aeon being that they are THE SAME COMPANY!

I'd rank working at Pizza Hut slightly higher than working at Taco Bell.

[jindojim]

Yeah, even though they're the same company, the contract benefits seem distinctly different if you compare them. So it's a source of a bit of confusion for me.

[Plekto]

That IS interesting. Same parent company but obviously different versionof reality. humm... I suspect that the better company was bought out by the less attractive one and is letting them run their own show for a while, as is customary with most mergers/buy-outs.

As for the 40 hour a week thing:
Say class starts at 8am and goes off and on until 3pm. 7 hours. 29.5 hours is 5 hours and 54 minutes per day, plus about an hour or so of breaks and time between classes and so on they don't pay you for. They count that as prep time, of course, but naturally you want to get there early for work and to do your own prep a bit - and not show up late(really bad), so that means you show up at 7:30 in the morning and leave about 3 in the afternoon. You end up doing 37.5 hours per week and get paid for 29.5.

My last job did this as well - didn't pay for lunch breaks and also didn't pay for medical since you weren't working 40 hours a week(37.5 on the paystub). Basically, these are poor places to work for because their ethics are plainly in the wrong place. They are trying to squeeze the system rather than just being a good ethical company and doing what's right.

The one that looked good as well as JET - claim up front 40 hours and pay you the same, or close to it. So why is full-time better than 29.5+ some few hours? (besides the resume' power)

250,000 Yen a month - that's 118 hours of work every 4 weeks(29.5 hours/week). Divide that and calculate in U.S. currency and that's ~$18 an hour. Figure 1/3-50% markup by the agency, as is the norm, and it's 24-27 an hour it's costing the school. Maybe $30.

288,000 a month - for 40 hours - that's 160 hours, or 1800 yen an hour. That's $15 an hour converted, more or less. -30,000 a month in insurance - same pay, more or less.

Now, you are making less per hour and working a *few* more hours to even it out, but they are paying you for your breaktime/etc. Now consider the employer - extra hours of overtime cost one $24-$30 and the other $20-$25 an hour. Which one is likely to give you actual overtime? To them, they are paying less per hour taught to begin with and therefore get a better deal, so paying a bit extra, since the company has you enrolled in the national insurance plan already(wont fight the school on it, which is always needing extra hours if they can manage it) - you end up likely working saturdays, too, if you want. Az is making 20% more salary by doing this, if he's getting paid for the weekends he works.

But you work a LOT harder. You also impress the bosses a lot more, so it's your choice. Me - I'd figure I'd just as soon get the better insurance and work an extra half hour a day and be full-time officially.

Also, 7 weeks vacation - I thought about it - that's a disaster. No pay for time not worked. That's 255,000 Yen a month, times 12 = 3,060,000 minus 7 weeks(412000) = ~2,650,000 a year, or about 220,000 a month, with week or so long gaps which cut your paycheck by a great deal. Take out ~10% tax, and that's 200,000 a month in your pocket, on average(plus miserable healthcare). You have time off to do stuff, but no money to go places. Pass on the fourth one.

[PopCulturePooka]

Hmmm you don't seem to dig that nature of Eikaiwa though.

No-one voluntarily stays late. Not like the Japanese, who work longer to impress the bosses and dont leave till the boss. You do the 40 hours by fault of the work schedule. If you are rostered to finish at 5, you are out the door at 5:10, like any other workplace in the west. The Japanese staff do the Japanese thing. You don't.

Heck there were many days when my manager (british) and I raced to get out. Part due to trains, part due to competition. If you were lucky enough to have a free or no show lesson as your last lesson of the day, you'd be waiting at the sign off station for the end of lesson bell to chime to plug in and bolt. No one ever thought less of you.

Turning up early? Hmm only you are a noob. Most experienced teachers front up not 10 minutes before they start. Lesson planning doesn't need more than that.

I turned up about 20 minutes before so I could have a copy, flirt with Japanese staff and have a relax before hitting the trenches.

The diddling with hours worked is a rather new thing, done after the industry got its arse kicked for not offering Shokai Hoken to employees. Before then a full time did usual fulltime hours and usually had insurance through a private company. I paid 7,500yen a month for my insurance.

While at Nova (2003 - 2005) I was in the workplace roughly 33.5 hours a week, excluding lunch breaks (give or take a bit). This is also close to what I was told I'd be doing. Shifts were either 7 hours or 6.25 depending on which day of the week you worked. Granted things have changed now because of the Shokai Hoken crap, but from what I figure, most teachers didnt even want SH or these changes.

I rolled in roughly 285,000 a month in my last year. 134 hours a month. Roughly 2125 yen an hour. Or $18USD. Take 7,500yen a month as insurance and I had a fair bit too play with. Too much if the junk I accumulated is any indication. Never did overtime at all. Wasn't that bad a deal.

[Rogue_7]

yeah, and the key is, not working 40 hours is good for US, and for the company. Why? well I'm glad you asked.

The contract has changed from 40 hours a week to 29.5. Pay has not changed. So we can now leave during the day, and get paid for it!

Also, if you have to pay Shokai Hoken, its something like an extra 10-30,000 yen a month out of your paycheck. Now I'd really rather keep that 30k yen in my pocket for beer money, thank you very much. Some of that is for health insurence, and some for a social security type thing. Now since I sure don't plan on being in Japan when I retire, that would be money down the drain totally. (There is supposed to be a reimbursement program, but I hear its a pain in the ass)

So its not so bad, and actually with the new contract we can leave as soon as class ends. So for example my shift is 1-10. My class ended at 9:45. I clocked out at 9:51, and was home by 10:01. Now thats nice! No bs sittin around for 15 min to clock out. ;-)